As the debate on the issues about Tanzania and kenya or the EAC relationship that has been raging on your site.I have just come accross this article from the new vision of Uganda .I hope your readers find it helpful.
Thank you
Ayoub mzee
Tanzania rejects EAC proposed land reforms
Risdel Kasasira The East African Legislative Assembly started its two-week session in Kampala yesterday with Tanzania maintaining its dissenting position on the proposed land reforms and the East African Identity Card.
During the press briefing addressed by EALA Speaker Abdirahin Abdi at Parliament yesterday, Tanzania Deputy Minister for East African Cooperation Mohammed Aboud said his country is not ready to adopt the East African passport and private land ownership.
Mr Aboud said, “In Tanzania the land is public and feel okay with it. We also feel that our national identity card should remain. Why shouldn’t these other countries adopt our land laws.” Land in Kenya, Uganda, Rwanda and Burundi is largely privately owned but in Tanzania, ownership entirely belongs to the government.
The Common Market provides for free movement of labour and resources but Mr instead says other member states should nationalise land ownership. “In Kenya only 10 per cent of land is owned privately. In Uganda, you also have problems with the Kabaka, why not adopt our land ownership system?” he asked.
Mr Aboud also said Tanzania wants to maintain its passport as a national identity card for fear of criminals entering their country. “We have experience. We feel we should maintain our passport as a national Identity card because of security issues,” he added.
The East African Community member states are planning to introduce one passport for citizens in all five member states. But Tanzania has been slow and hesitant to support these reforms, a situation that is likely to drag the 2012 planned political federation. Mr Abdi said a technical team composed of members from partner states will meet in Rwanda in January 2008 to discuss the variance position of Tanzania on Common Market.
Rwanda and Burundi, which joined the EA community early this year, are behind schedule after joining the community late and are still collecting views of their citizens on the community.
The Rwanda Minister of East African Community Affairs, Ms Monique Mukaruliza, said the two countries are still collecting views from the people on the EAC and findings of the consultations will soon be presented to the community.
On the proposed uniform school fees for students in partner states, Ms Mukaruliza said after adoption of the Common Market, all students will pay the same school fees.
We don't need EAC and EAC passport either!After all,we are Tanzanians with our known identity cards! I'm really glad our minister used a technical trap to address our reluctance!The Kenyan's Ideas is based on betrayal!They still have a road to walk! Let them go ahead and forge the union with other members.Culturally,they are different!If their choosen way of life is based on fighting,stealing and betraying,then how can you live with these individuals!Even foreigners are complaining about touring Nairobi or Mombasa!Even here,Kenyans are running away from their community to Tanzanian!We Tanzania anywhere outside our beloved country do form communities!By the way,maybe I'm wrong;but I never heard Kenyan community here in the US!Maybe it is there,but it is not active as the ones of Tanzania and Uganda.Now,someone do not have community he/she belong to in their respective areas;why do you think he/she will cop with you,a Tanzania blessed with natural peace.It's the same as Nigeria in West Africa,but at least,they have a community!Honorable Minister Mohammed Aboud,thumbs up!
ReplyDeleteChakubanga
The question here is: Is it possible to have an East African Federation? Is the Way of Life of the peoples living in East Africa being considered? Why did the first forming of such a Federation Collapse?
ReplyDeleteKama Kenya wanataka sana muungano, siyo lazima muungano huo uwe na Tanzania, waunde muungano huo na majirani wao wa kule kaskazini: Somalia, Ethiopia, na Sudan.
ReplyDeleteKeep your Kenya, and we will keep our Tanzania: period.
WAACHIENI "KENYA, UGANDA" NA "RWANDA, BURUNDI" WAUNGANE HALAFU SISI TUTAWASAIDIA "WAKIMBIZI" WAKISHAANZA KUPIGANA.LA SI HIVYO OHOOOOO
ReplyDeleteYes. Msimamo wa Tanzania bomba. Hatuwezi kuruhusu wakenya waje wapore ardhi yetu. Hakuna kulala wala kurudi nyuma. Serikali lazima iendelee na msimamo huo huo, hata kama ni kwa gharama ya kuachana na huo muungano unaoharakishwa kwa sababu tu ya uchu wa ardhi yetu walionao wakenya.
ReplyDeleteMdau.
Why should we have one passport? we are noe one country, is not it? even in EU each country has its own passport, even the euros each country has its own euro they don't look the same, they(euro)are the same in terms of value only. At the very start they talk about land, why? again we are different country we can not talk about land, innit? so the huge interest is land yeah? if that the case we Tanzanians we don't need your federation, we had one, but 31 years ago (1977) was murdered by Kenyans for their selfish and greedy. KIKWETE, we don't need this dark, dirty thing, if you drag us into it consider youreself not to be president in 2010.
ReplyDeleteThis is a good one for Tanzanian Government and Leaders and hoping they will keep making the right judgments regarding the EAC. Not only the EAC countries are over populated, but also have so much other issues including politics, corruption and conflicts as a results of tribalism. These countries are forcing this Union as get away to their internal conflicts, over population and other problems at their countries.
ReplyDeleteRwanda and Burundi issues are clear as I think we are still hosting some of their refugees. Tutsi and Hutu are still enemies. Rwanda has been a keen player in the Congo conflict and also in Uganda, they are just war people. Uganda has issue since Obote, Amini, Museveni and today they are still fighting Lord Resistance Army to the north.
Kenya also have issues. The country has been a capitalist for a while with Europeans occupies much of the big companies. Most regular forks are just out of the system. There is a big danger if this kind of capitalism is given a free pass in Tanzanian land. Kenya has other issues including tribalism where their own citizens can not get along. You can just see so many reasons for the big Kenya push for this Union as such things as markets for their products, employment opportunities, land, and also investment opportunities. They want to force the contract for private land ownership so that they can have the rights, and not to be pushed out in the future.
Based on the failed previously EAC we got to think; fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. We can work having some kind of business agreements, visas, etc but we didn't meant to have United States of East Africa.
N:B Kwa yeye anayesema ndugu, ndugu, ndugu. Hiyo inasaidia kuondoa vita baadala ya kuchoma moto watoto na mama yao in the church. Unapoita ndugu inafanya kikuyu, luo, kamba, maasai, wanakuwa kitu kimoja. Hivyo ndivyo tulivyounganishwa where every Tanzanian was your ndugu. It used to be Ndugu Speaker, Ndugu Mbunge, Ndugu wananchi, just a common title to all of us. Na kuhusu Obama, Kenya will never be a part of US. Liberia did try that shit once and in time of need (war) and it did not work out. We are proud Africans and we are not impressing white people to love us and occupy us again or adopting us. We are proud for Obama as a motivation that we can do better in our own countries. Tanzania has been close to US and other Nations and will always be. We are proud to have deputy UN Sec. and also AU Chairman For years we have been pioneers helping other countries in the continent and this time we just want a little space to take care of ourself
Can the author treat this as different thread topic rather than a topic, thats a request and not Compulsory, I appreciate it Thanks
ReplyDeleteLAND and IDENTITY CARD(PASSPOT) ISSUES should REMAIN SECURITY CONCERNS FOR TANZANIA WHILE NEGOTIATING ON EAC INTEGRATION - By Mchangiaji
Can you guys see the problem with our Government approach.
They have been pretty much dictated their agendas by our friends, We dont have agendas of our own. We wait, what they have to put on table and we then respond to their abuse, by shrugging our shoulders, as usual Moaning and whining, without counter attacking the motions proposed for our benefits, and then resolve with solutions, and thats is the art of agrerement I guess.
I would think for now, the best way is to stall this process all together for indefinite period of time until we know the art of negotiating, and let them forge ahead with what they agreed on without our signatories, and we will remain committed for future cooperation or cooperating on other many issues like trades and education. And yes our negotiating presentative and his co, seems very much dont have a clue about the immense and importance of these discussion, Did we put any propasals of our own, or we just want to join EAC, or have we been drugged all along na kutongozwa by our neighbouring countries on their issues and agendas, and we decided to give them the KISS? Can someone explain that to me please?
I think these thorn issues of LAND and identities card, should remain as very much as SECURITY issue for Tanzania for a number reasons which I will highlight on this comment.
The best way for government is not allowing being dictated their agenda by other foreign countries, particularly UGANGA and Kenya, which pretty much have huge land problems and IDENTITY problems(tribalism, civil wars, and others). They cannot liquidate their tribalism problems with expense of our own security by listening to their agendas, I trully believe they need land reform more than we need, but that does not mean we do not have problems on our own yard. it will be best for us to highlight their land problems and stop talking about our land, we owe to do some research and investigate their problems, it is our neighbour but it seems to me we dont know much about them, than they do about us. HIT them hard on their tough, talking about their problems in response, WE DONT HAVE HUGE problems, but they have A MUCH BIGGER PROBLEMS.
Why not forge ahead with other issues and stay away from these objectionable issues for a time being, they want cooperation they must listen on what we have to say, surely UK maintains its own Pounds in EURO Zone but commited to the EU Community, surelly Mexicans never been given US passports/or a common passport to travels to US or CANADA freely but still remain in NAFTA agreement. Talking about NAFTA why not have this mini agreement, like trades and Education cooperation and forget about full integration for time being.
We can only forge agreement, based on mutual benefits, therefore Uganda and Kenya should respect our decision, and NOT DICTATING agenda on our expense. We need tough politicians with breadth of knowledge and diplomacy, and I dont see that on our negotiating EAC minister. Mr. Aboud,
This is the message to HIM, Highlight their recent problems of tribalism and land problems, can the minister google stuff, or is he techno phobic, just a little help on his behalf, does he know that UGANDA land problems started in 1900, and THATS the problems still persist despite number of agreements since then, yet no resolution to be found, or their problems will be resolved once we(Tanzania) give in to their so called STALLING AGENDAS(land) - can you smell rotten fish you can read more on this link here UGANDA land problems - AllAfrican and you can found some info on Uganda tribal problems here Uganda: There Should Be No Shame in Tribalism - Prof Lugemwa They have smart ways, and nice ways of justifying their tribalism, their constituents presentation in BUNGE of uganda is totally dominated by tribalism, their agenda is totally discord to the central government, Tribes first, UGANDA second, we definetely dont what that on our back yard.
We all know about tribalism in Kenya, I dont need to highlight on this blog, but you can go ahead and read more about Kenya land problems, even Koffi Anan former UN secretary, this is what he had to say following a peace resolution signed between fighting factions after the recent turmoil election in Kenya.
"We must tackle the fundamental issues underlying the disturbances -- like equitable distribution of resources -- or else we will be back here again after three or four years," former U.N. chief Kofi Annan He is actually talking about land problems in Kenya, You can read full article here POLITICS: Kenya’s Problem Goes Beyond Ethnicity and Elections
The Question is do we want to spend the rest of our life time, resolving their problems, Let them learn how to leave together, and then we can discuss about identity and land issues.
The country has just been on war footings, we are talking about integrating onto our midst. What kind of union is that. In matter of fact we are giving them a favour by allowing ourselves listening to them, while still in civil wars on their yard. They should be thankfull for that. and if they are sincere enough about this whole thing, then they should start listening to what we have to say, and go ahead discuss other issues, and not discussing about passports and identities as hindrance issue and stoping in discussing others.
EXPANSIONISM is their REAL AGENDA???. Some may say they are looking at long time approach, make your own anaylysis and conclusion.
By Mchangiaji.
KWAKELI KA UAMUZI HUO WA KUKATA KUWA NA ID YA AINA MOJA INATIA MOJA NA INAFURAHISHA SANA KWA SABABU HAINA MAANA YEYOTE KATIKA MAISHA YA MTANZANIA HATA HAO WA EAST AFRICA WENYEWE ZA YA KATIMIZA NIA ZA HAWA JAMAA WA MAGHARIBI KATIKA KAMPENI ZAO ZA "ONE WORLD ORDER" AMBAO WAO HUKU WAMEISHA JIUNNGA "EUROPEAN UNION" NA WANENDELEA KUJITANUA SASA WANATUSUBIRI SISI AFRICA ITAKUA EAST AFRICA THEN WHOLE OF AFRICA SO ITAKUA BUSARA SANA KAMA TUKUWEZA KUJISAIDIA WENYEWEW KABLA HUYU BWANA HAJAICONTROL HII DUNIA COS HIO TIME ITAKUA NGUMU, SO THANKS TANZANIA KWA KUKATA HII DEALESS
ReplyDeleteTHANK
I think Tanzania has right to take all time she need before accepting this land reform proposal.We have learn from other countries how this critical issue will affect our nation.We do not need to be rushed with any country.We don't want to make the same mistake that will affect our young generation.Our children gonna ask us one day what our parent were thinking?
ReplyDeleteGod bless Tanzania
Mdau U.S.A
jamani hawa jamaa wanatutaka nini, check bussines daily ya leo huko kenya below ndo walichoandika,....kilichonikera zaidi ni ile paragraph mwishoni eti tanzanial largely blamed for the colapse of eac. jamani ebu nipeni ukweli nani alivunja hili shirikisho
ReplyDeletestalls regional integration project
Written by Jim Onyango and Risdel Kasasira
East African heads of state, from left, Rwanda’s Paul Kagame, Yoweri Museveni (Uganda), Mwai Kibaki (Kenya), Jakaya Kikwete (Tanzania) and Burundi’s Pierre Nkurunziza during an EAC meeting in Arusha, Tanzania, in 2005December 4, 2008: East African Community member states have disagreed over key policy targets, dealing yet another blow to regional integration plans.
Talks to create a seamless regional economy that would allow free flow of goods, labour and capital across Burundi, Rwanda, Tanzania, Kenya and Ugandan borders collapsed on Tuesday after members failed to agree on how to proceed.
The sticking points were land ownership, issuance of identity cards and permanent residency, according to sources at the meeting.
Tanzania, widely blamed for the collapse of EAC in 1977, said it would not drop its opposition to the planned introduction of regional ID cards and private land ownership.
Experts are now warning that these points of departure could permanently undermine the EAC integration project unless a middle ground is found to accommodate the interests of the partners.
This story is available in full in the Business Daily e-paper.
You may subscribe to the newspaper here.
I am very proud of our Minister; we don't need this federation stuff and its blaablaa. One question I asked my self why so quickly? Kenya and Uganda have their own ideas and we don’t need them here in Tanzania, they don’t have enough land there and the want to grab our here, even jobs it is hard for a Tanzanian to get a job in Kenya let alone Uganda and the want to come here to get our portion on our own citizens why? Please get rid of the this issue of one passport, Land issue, Jobs there let be ours forever, just like Great Britain as the are in the European Union but they use their own Sterling Pound till now not the euro.. let Tanzania be for Tanzanians. “God Bless Tanzania”
ReplyDeleteok, watanzania, lets discuss, what exactly are we going to benefit joining this guys,kazi??!,soko??,usalam??!, vyote hakuna,tena tuchukulie kwa ordinary mtanzania kazi hakuna, na iyo itawapa advantage wa Kenya na waganda zaidi, kama mnabisha njooni muone huku Kigali,wa kenya ni kama waindi Dubai,soko,NO!, hakuna bidhaa zetu zinazouzwa kenya mpaka tutakapo kuwa kwenye nafasi ya kushindana nao, so kwa mtazamo wangu let buy time as we develop capacity, jamani twende shule, tupige kazi let the kenyans busy theselves kuwa eti wao tu ndo agresive by the time wanashtuka tushawapiga gap kinoma,
ReplyDeleteok, watanzania, lets discuss, what exactly are we going to benefit joining this guys,kazi??!,soko??,usalam??!, vyote hakuna,tena tuchukulie kwa ordinary mtanzania kazi hakuna, na iyo itawapa advantage wa Kenya na waganda zaidi, kama mnabisha njooni muone huku Kigali,wa kenya ni kama waindi Dubai,soko,NO!, hakuna bidhaa zetu zinazouzwa kenya mpaka tutakapo kuwa kwenye nafasi ya kushindana nao, so kwa mtazamo wangu let buy time as we develop capacity, jamani twende shule, tupige kazi let the kenyans busy theselves kuwa eti wao tu ndo agresive by the time wanashtuka tushawapiga gap kinoma,
ReplyDeleteHE! JANJA YA NYANI KWISA JUA!!!!
ReplyDeleteKUMBE KUZUUNGUKA KOOOTE HUKO ILIKUA NI JANJA YA NYANI KUPORA ARDHI YETU???? MMENOA WATANZANIA WA AWAMU YA TATU SI WA AWAMU YA NNE TUKO MAKINI, NA KWAKWELI HATA HII JUMUIA IMESHA TUTUMBUKIA NYONGO HATUITAKI
MZEE WA BUNJU
Hongera Serikari yetu, kama vp na huwa Muungano ukataeni, hawa wakenya ni wajanja sana hawana lolote la maana zaidi ya kutaka kupora ardhi yetu.
ReplyDeletehii kweli inaonesha uhuru tulionao na tunaamua kipi cha kufanya na kipi cha kuacha, si lazima wakenya waungane na sisi waende wakaungane na wasomari na wasudani waanzishe shirikisho lao.
I SUPPORT MY FELLOW TANZANIAN DONT ACCEPT THIS FEDERATION STILL WE NEED MORE TIME TO THINK BECAUSE STILL WE HAVE PROBLEM WITH OUR UNION WITH ZANZIBAR
ReplyDeleteKwanza sijui kwanini tunaendelea kudiscuss suala la EAC wakati tushajua lengo kubwa la majirani zetu ...
ReplyDelete==========================
WAZO
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Ni wakati sasa wakuanza kujitoa taratibu kwenye mchakato huo kwani kuna msemo wa Kiingereza unaosema
" The Earlier The Better "
Tuwaache hao wenzetu na jumuiya ya kuunganisha "Mafuta ya taa na maji"
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EAC community is like mixing "water and kerosine" and expecting to get a perfect mixture
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Tu"concentrate" na mambo yahusuyo nchi yetu
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By the way tunayojumuiya jingine ambayo tumo, SADC
YAH: WATANZANIA MSIKUBALI
ReplyDeleteSHIRIKISHO
Rejea mjadala unaoendelea hivi sasa mimi binafsi ningelishukuru kama maoni yangu vilevile yakawa mojawapo katika maoni kwa Tanzania mapendekezo.
Mimi binafsi nawashauri Watanzania wakatae kujiunga na shirikisho kwa sababu zifuatazo:
1)Ni mapema mno kwa kuwa watu wengi hawajaelimishwa na walio wengi hawajui faida zake kwa kuwa nchi yetu bado ipo katika matatizo muungano mwingine na Zanzibar ambao mimi naona tayari ni tatizo kubwa; nina uhakika 100% hata kura nyingi zikipigwa wananchi wengi hawautaki muungano huu; si Zanzibar wala Bara.
2)Nchi kama Uganda bado ipo katika tatizo kubwa la vita vya wenyewe kwa wenyewe hakuna amani. Katika nchi hii ukabila upo katika kiwango cha juu mno.
3)Katika repoti ya shirika la umoja wa mataifa ( world population program ) Uganda ni nchi iliyo katika kiwango cha kutisha na ni nchi inayoongoza katika Africa kwa ongezeko la watu kwa kiwango cha juu kuliko nchi yoyote ya Africa. Makadirio ifikapo 2050 Uganda itakawa imezidi nchi zote za Africa Mashariki hapa ninamaanisha kwakua tayari Uganda inaukosefu mkubwa wa ardhi ; watakwenda wapi? Lazima watakwenda Tanzania. maana Tanzania ndio nchi yenye eneo kubwa la ardhi ina ardhi ipatayo sq km 945,087 wakati Kenya ina 580,367sqkm Uganda 236,040. Burundi 27,830 na Rwanda 26,338.jumla ukijumlisha zote zina sq km 870,575. ambazo bado hazifikii kwa ukubwa Tanzania peke yake yenye ukubwa sqkm 945,087. peke yake .
4)Katika nchi hizi za Africa ya mashariki kuna tatizo kubwa la ukosefu wa ajira hivi sasa. katika nchi za Uganda na Kenya ni kubwa kulinganisha na Tanzania hii ina maanisha kutokana na kuanzishwa kwa shirikishoWatanzania watamezwa katika soko la ajira na kuchukuliwa na wageni.
Mimi binafsi ninajua ninachokisema na nimeishi Uganda kwa miaka 7,na nimesafiri mara nyingi Kenya na ninajua hali ukosefu wa ajira katika nchi hizi za Kenya na Uganda
6) Tanzania ni nchi iliyo katika ushirikisho kama wa SADCC,n.k na mara zote Tanzania ni nchi ambayo kila mara inaingia kichwa kichwa bila hata utafiti wa kutosha katika mambo mengi ambayo baadae tunaanza kujuta kwa nini tuliingia na ni hasara tupu kwa fedha za walipa kodi. Tumeingia COMESA na tumejitoa ni aibu tupu kuona nchi ambayo tunajivunia kwa Amani lakini hadi leo sisi ndiyo wa mwisho kwa umasikini sasa hawa wasomi wetu wanatupeleka wapi?
7) Nina uhakika hakuna ubishi hata hili shirikisho likianzishwa litakufa. Kwa sababu ya ubinafsi wa kila nchi nakupa mfano: Uganda mwaka 2001 walijenga bwawa lingine kwa ajili ya mitambo ya umeme ambalo ni KIRA-DAM wakati hapohapo kama mita kama 50 hivi lipo OWEN FALLS ili wapate umeme zaidi jambo la kusikitisha ni ina maana maji yanatiririka kutoka ziwa Victoria ni mara mbili zaidi, sasa mwaka 2006 tumeona ziwa likipungua na hakuna hata nchi moja ya Africa Mashariki iliyokemea Uganda hata Uganda wenyewe wanatatizo sasa kwa kuwa umeme hawapati wa kutosha . unapojiuliza kwa nini?wasingeenda mbele hata km 2 au 5 mbele mto nile unakoelekea ambako kuna maporomoko makubwa kuliko hata hata Owen falls wakajenge mtambo mwingine wa kuzalisha umeme kuliko huu wa KIRA-DAM ? huu ni mfano mmoja wa ubinafsi wa kutojali wengine.
8) Bado wananchi wengi wanamakovu ya iliyokuwa jumuia ya afrika mashariki iliyovunjika mwaka 1977 hadi hii leo miaka thelathini hawajalipwa mafao yao,sasa mtu wa kawaida ukimwuliza atakwambia hakuna jipya litakalo kuja Hii ni baadhi ya mifano michache tu niliyo nayo ambayo inanifanya niamini kuwa hakuna haja ya kujiunga kwa haraka na hili shirikisho tunahitaji zaidi miaka kumi zaidi kujiandaa hakuna haja ya kukimbilia kwa hili kwani tumeona kwa hiki kipindi cha muda wa miaka mitatu iliyopita ya ushirikiano huu tumejifunza kuona ujambazi wenye mbinu za kisasa kutokea nchi jirani katika mabenki yetu, kitu ambacho kwetu ni kipya kabisa.
Haya ndiyo maoni yangu binafsi.
D. Daniel
Box 9331
Dar es sala
More disturbing news, on this clip Museveni is trying to justify the right of children to fight on a full combat wars.
ReplyDelete"We train them from the age of four...." Yoweri Museveni
Watch Museveni and Child Soldiers
MICHU HEBU NIKUKUMBUSHE KAMSEMO KA JK ...... SAA NYINGINE KANA NOGA SANA KANA SEMA HIVIIIIIIIII
ReplyDeleteWATANZANIA BILA WAKENYAAAAAAAAAAAA.......MHHHHHH INAWEZEKANAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA KUDADADEKIIIIIIIIII
WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
KWANIIIIIIIIIIIIII
HATUWATAKIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII .
AKIJA JA MKENYA SISI TUKO TAYARI
AKIJAKWACHINI MKAGANYAGE, AKIJA KWAJUU MTUNGUUUUUUUU MNAUKUMBUKA WIMBO HUUUUUUU BY ENZI ZA JULIUS K NYERERE.....
HAYO MANYANGAUUUUUU HATUYATAKI HATA KIDOGO ....
UTASIKIIA NINGANIIIIII
KWENDA NINGANI KWENU HUKO HATUJUI HATA MAANA YAKE NINI
WAAMBAE AMBAE
siwamind hata kidogo ndo maana tunawatimua kwetu wanarohooo mbaya sana tena inasemekana kaka mmoja aliuwawa hapa kwetu tz alikuwa akifanya kazi uniliver inasemekana ni wao kisa aliwazidi madaraka. sasa sisi wanini. hata huko kwao wanauwa watu halafu wanawatupa kwenye msitu mmoja hivi hatuwataki kabisasaaaaaaaaa
ReplyDeleteJamani eeh kelele tu tunazopiga hapa hazisaidii kitu, we need to take actions,
ReplyDeleteKwanza ili kulinda maslahi yetu sisi watanzania, wakati wa kampeni za uchaguzi wa 2010 vyama vya siasa vije na sera inayohusu mustakabali wetu kwneye jumuia hii, maana nasikia kuna baadhi ya vyama vinafadhiliwa ili vije vituuze kwa bei ya kutupwa!
Pili kwa sasa kama inawezekana tusaini kukataa hilo federation, kwani union yenye kila nchi na uongozi wake haiwezekani? Kuna haja gani ya hiyo federation? Kwani tukiwa na uhusiano wa kiuchumi tu peke yake bila kuingiliana mpaka vyumbani hautoshi? Tuamue ni aina gani ya hiyo eac tunaitaka na serikali yetu ipeleke mapendekezo hayo huko kwa wenzao, kuwa wananchi wetu wanataka aina hii ya ushirikiano sio kupoteza identity na ardhi yetu. Wazee wetu walilinda hii ardhi mpaka na sie tumeikuta na tunataka watoto na wajukuu na vitukuu vyetu waikute!
Mwisho hili ni kwa WaKENYA NA WAGANDA kwanza, hivi hii federation mtuambie itamsaidia vipi mtu masikini kabisa aliye pale Mathare valley au wa Uganda ambaye ana hali duni na hana rasilimali yoyote?
Pili kama mmesoma maoni ya watanzania wengi wanalalamikia na kukataa hii federation kwa sababu ya tabia zenu za dharau, kiburi na jeuri. Hasa wa Kikuyu na Wabaganda, kwa sababu sio waganda na wakenya wote wenye tabia za dharau na jeuri na kiburi na kujiona wao ni bora kuliko watu wengine. Waswahili wanamsemo mtaka cha uvunguni sharti ainame, sasa nyie wakikuyu (Gitau Warigi ni Mkikuyu) hizo dharau zenu mnataka kuleta huku Tanzania, badala ya kuinama MNABINUA KITANDA, matokeo yake mumemuamsha aliye lala juu ya hicho kitanda! Acheni dharau, jeuri, kibri, na muwaone watu wako sawa kwa sababu Tanzania tunaamini kuwa BINADAMU WOTE NI SAWA NA KILA MTU ANASTAHILI HESHIMA! Mkishajifunza manyago hayo, na kisha mkishalainishwa na lugha ya kiswahili (hii lugha ina magic ndani yake ukishaijua na kuitumia utaona tu hata tabia yako itabadilika) hapo ndio tunaweza kuanza kuongea biashara nyingine, lakini pamoja na hayo federation Hapanaaaaaaaaaa!
Mswahili!
personal opinion!
ReplyDeleteI urge The Gov Of Tz To officialise michuzi blog as a way of collecting very diverse, indispensable, and highly technical views of tanzanians living locally and abroad..! I have found this blog very usefu and yet less made use of by the government!
EAC-agenda..
This topic is one among the most sensitive issues we have ever had before, when EAC collapsed more than three decades ago, by then I was less than 2 and all I know is that the key players did not honour the agreements..now that the so called fathers of the trio nations (Nyerere, Kenyatta and Oboto) have departed, we have realised the threats of staying un-united! Unity is inevitable but now at the stage where others are still sceptical on very principal issues !!
OUR READINESS..
Mr. Kikwete, all Tanzanian's have full trust on your capabilities when it comes to dealing with partinent issues like this and we believe you wont let us down... we feel we are still not ready to be dragged! Let's probably have a partial federation and other pending issues like LAND, free labour movement and may others wait till when feel it is the right time to operationalise them.
Mtanzania!
Acheni Kelele Jameni!
ReplyDeleteYou have made your point loud and clear.
"Tanzania does not need EAC."
Sawa kabisa. Now do the next mature thing as citizens of that strange country. Collect all these views and compile them into a list then send it to President JK and your leaders. You president, whom we also love and respect, has a website by the way so you can send the report to him directly.
Tell him that Tanzanians dont want EAC and he should therefore WITHDRAW your country's membership immediately.
After you do that, we will know that you are really mature people who mean what they say and say what they mean.
The results of the OFFICIAL withdrawal of TANZANIA from EAC include:
1. Kenya, Uganda, Burundi and Rwanda move on towards the establishment of EAC and later EAF at the fast pace they all want.
2. Some of the noisy Tanzanians here start getting some self-esteem, and your "beloved" motherland starts regaining regional respect from its peers.
3. At the right time, after their own 2011 referendum, Southern Sudan joins us and who knows maybe Somalia and Ethiopia etc. To Kenyans, all Africans are equal and none is superior to the other. In this view, even good old Mwalimu Nyerere agreed.
4. When you are ready to move into the future with the rest of the world give us a call maybe in 2100AD.
5. There will be no more "annoying" articles from Gitau Warigis or Risdel Kasasira and Kamau!
6. I rest my case.
Back to work guys! Acheni domomdomo. It will take us nowhere. Tuchape kazi! Fanyeni maandamano ya umma ilimshinikize uongozi wenu iwaondoe kwenye jumuiya na harakati zake. Sio tu arm-chair criticism from abroad.
My personal position is that Tanzania is ripe for Kenyan investment (what you call exploitation), and patronage. If we let Tanzania to continue wallowing in misery, confusion and youthful pleasures, what will we as Kenyans tell the Almighty on Judgement day? "That we Kenyans failed in being our brothers' keepers?". No way.
And Michuzi keep up the brilliant administrative work. This is true democracy. Let wananchi speak!
Shejemi,
Kamau
We annony wa December 04, 2008 2:36 PM unayejiita Kamau
ReplyDeleteNaomba nikujibu kama ifuatavyo
1. Ni kweli President Kikwete atapata ujumbe wa WaTanzania sababu hizi taarifa za blog huwa zinamfikia either through yeye mwenyewe kublog(apatapo muda) or through washauri wake wa mambo ya IT kwa hiyo rest assured atapata hizi taarifa kwamba watanzania hawataki huu muungano "tata"
2. We wish you all the best for "fast pace" yenu ya ku"creat" EAC without Tanzania.
3. If not us Tanzania will feel self-esteem with our motherland, who should do that? We love to be given regional respect from peers but that respect must be genuine and not fake one( which need some payback afterward)
4. We are the number one believers that all African are equal and we have been strong supporters of that slogan practically(vide our freedom struggle contribution to other counties). Apart from that we call each other ndugu and they are no tribalism in Tanzania or regional,religious seggregation. There is no such right time, the right time is when every party participating in EAC could agree beyond any doubt to join a union and not other country forcing mwingine to join blindly.
5. We are moving with the rest of the world, We are members of several unions but we cant be told what to do. We do things for benefit of Tanzania and its future generations and not the otherwise.
6. It seems articles from Gitau Warigis or Risdel Kasasira and Kamau! wont end even if EAC is in place ...these people earn their day by writing those "chuki" creating articles so they will create another "chuki" article to provoke the society in order to earn their day.
7. Tunashukuru kwa ushauri wako ya kwamba tuchape kazi na kwa kweli tunajitahidi kuchapa kazi ili tuweze kuendeleza nchi yetu kwa manufaa yetu. Suala la maandamano tutafanya ikiwe tutaona kuna umuhimu lakini otherwise tunajua viongozi wetu ni waelewa wataifanyia kazi haraka iwezekenavyo without personal interest.
8. Nakunukuu
" My personal position is that Tanzania is ripe for Kenyan investment (what you call exploitation), and patronage. If we let Tanzania to continue wallowing in misery, confusion and youthful pleasures, what will we as Kenyans tell the Almighty on Judgement day? "That we Kenyans failed in being our brothers' keepers?". No way.
"
mwisho wa kunukuuu
Jibu langu
===============================
Hahahahaaaaaa
Continue to dream... dreams might come true sometimes .... though chances is very tiny
But ..
Watch out ........!!!!!
As you might be "digging your own grave"
God gave you brain but I guess you are under-using it
==============================
GROW UP BROTHERS
We annony wa December 04, 2008 2:36 PM unayejiita Kamau
ReplyDeleteNaomba nikujibu kama ifuatavyo
1. Ni kweli President Kikwete atapata ujumbe wa WaTanzania sababu hizi taarifa za blog huwa zinamfikia either through yeye mwenyewe kublog(apatapo muda) or through washauri wake wa mambo ya IT kwa hiyo rest assured atapata hizi taarifa kwamba watanzania hawataki huu muungano "tata"
2. We wish you all the best for "fast pace" yenu ya ku"creat" EAC without Tanzania.
3. If not us Tanzania will feel self-esteem with our motherland, who should do that? We love to be given regional respect from peers but that respect must be genuine and not fake one( which need some payback afterward)
4. We are the number one believers that all African are equal and we have been strong supporters of that slogan practically(vide our freedom struggle contribution to other counties). Apart from that we call each other ndugu and they are no tribalism in Tanzania or regional,religious seggregation. There is no such right time, the right time is when every party participating in EAC could agree beyond any doubt to join a union and not other country forcing mwingine to join blindly.
5. We are moving with the rest of the world, We are members of several unions but we cant be told what to do. We do things for benefit of Tanzania and its future generations and not the otherwise.
6. It seems articles from Gitau Warigis or Risdel Kasasira and Kamau! wont end even if EAC is in place ...these people earn their day by writing those "chuki" creating articles so they will create another "chuki" article to provoke the society in order to earn their day.
7. Tunashukuru kwa ushauri wako ya kwamba tuchape kazi na kwa kweli tunajitahidi kuchapa kazi ili tuweze kuendeleza nchi yetu kwa manufaa yetu. Suala la maandamano tutafanya ikiwe tutaona kuna umuhimu lakini otherwise tunajua viongozi wetu ni waelewa wataifanyia kazi haraka iwezekenavyo without personal interest.
8. Nakunukuu
" My personal position is that Tanzania is ripe for Kenyan investment (what you call exploitation), and patronage. If we let Tanzania to continue wallowing in misery, confusion and youthful pleasures, what will we as Kenyans tell the Almighty on Judgement day? "That we Kenyans failed in being our brothers' keepers?". No way.
"
mwisho wa kunukuuu
Jibu langu
===============================
Hahahahaaaaaa
Continue to dream... dreams might come true sometimes .... though chances is very tiny
But ..
Watch out ........!!!!!
As you might be "digging your own grave"
God gave you brain but I guess you are under-using it
==============================
GROW UP BROTHERS
tuangalieni kwa makini watanzania kama wakenya wenyewe wanababaguana nnchini mwao(makabila) itakuwa sisi toka nnje ya nnchi yao.
ReplyDeletemungu ibariki tanzania.
mama star
Embu kwanza niulize
ReplyDelete------------------
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Hivi ule ugomvi wa Wakenya na Waganda kuhusu kile kisiwa kimoja kilichopo ziwa Victoria uliishaje?
=========================
Maana nilisikia eti mara Kenya wapandishe bendera mara Uganda waishushe na kupandisha yao ....Sijui kama palikalika huko
==========================
Na ningependa kujua huo ugomvi uliishaje maana tuliskia kwenye taarifa ya habari ya ITV kama mwezi mmoja uliopita
=========================
Shemeji Kamau,
ReplyDeleteYou so brilliant that is why you have noted that Tanzanians don't want this thing called Federation.
But we want you Kenyans and others to know the reasons. We are better at UNITY than Kenyans, you know it, and therefore, we know what we are talking about.
Kenyans have no unity in their own land, how can they unite with us?
Ugandans, Rwandese, Burundis, same story. We are better prepered for the 21st centuries than Kenya. We have more resources than anybody.
We have peace. You guys! Mmh!
No, this is a bad idea, we don't want problems in our country.
No Sir. Some people from tribe are also found in Kenya and they are running away. Why should we unite with you?
No, no, no!
Yaani Leo hii nilipanga kesho niende nikanunue viatu vyenye nembo ya BATA kutoka Kenya vyenye thamani ya Tshs 45,000 pale Samora Avenue lakini baada ya kusoma comments na article mbalimbali kuhusu mustakabali mzima wa EAC nimeghairi
ReplyDelete===========================
Afadhali nikanunue skuna hata za elfu kumi za wachina
===========================
Watu tunapeana support kumbe wenzetu wanatuona wajinga
===========================
Okay ahsante kwa kutufumbua macho na masikio
///////////////
We Kamau hata Uganda na Rwanda hawawataki we subiri ndo maaana wamewapora kisiwa Lake Victoria kwa hiyo funga domo hapa mambo ya kuwa eti mna elimu zaidi hizo ni hadithi za abunuwasi kwa vile literacy rate ya TZ na Kenya haitofautiani sana i think 78 against 80 so you need to stop being pompos. Tell me 1 think why is your poverty level keep rising everyday you have over 52% of Kenyans leaving under poverty level while with our GDP which majority of you (Kenyans) claim is too small we have 37% and keep falling every year.
ReplyDeleteWhen you claim you are rich try to educate people that companies like Safcom and Kenya airways are minor owned by Kenyans less than 18% and the rest belong to UK. The same applies to Nationmedia, Serena Hotels majority shares are belonged to His Highness Aga Khan without forgetting EA Breweries which is owned by Diageo Plc and some other foreign guys, whereas Athi River mining belonged to Indian billioneers the Ambani Bro. tell me one thing when will you have truly Kenyans tycoons of the likes of Mengi, Shirima, Zadock and so many of which TZ is proud of! That's why you see when you are making noisy on your mightness quiet TZnians do business and what makes me laugh is they do business with the likes of Delamere or Melari cause no black Kenyans to partner with! They are just out there demonstrating that they are more educated and better off than the Tanzanians !
Anyway let me congratulate you cause since your independence, it is recently Kenya managed to produce beer i.e. Ketricho Brew.
After being lied by Diageo PLc with a phrases "bia yangu nchi yangu during a beer war against sabmiller
Shemeji Kanyau:
ReplyDeleteI love what u said, "My personal position is that Tanzania is ripe for Kenyan investment (what you call exploitation), and patronage."
I think Tanzania is better-off staying alone, no marriage no nothing.
Kenyans assume leadership in this issue, now BACK OFF!!!!
TOWENI UKIRANJA WENU HAPA!!!
We Shejemi hujaombwa ushauri achana na sisi kabisa...mshatuudhi halafu unaleta kujuajua. Waache waTZ wajadili. Who in hell are u to close this discussion?? Brothers' keeper mnaouana kilasiku. Mjifunze demokrasia kwanza ndio tutakuwa same page.
ReplyDeleteI do agree with most of comments above, what i see in the whole issue of EAC/EAF is that political issues are more dominant than bussiness.What is the benefit of this intergration while there so much that we don't share in common.
ReplyDeleteOur leaders forced us into accepting Rwanda and Burundi i know before the British era Tanzania,Kenya,Uganda,Burundi,Rwanda was one under the Germany but after the WW1 things changed British gave Rwanda and Burundi to Belginians and French things changed, Rwanda and Burundi were more assimilated to there colonial masters while Tanzania,Kenya,Uganda remained under British not only that Tanzania was or Tanganyika by that time was just under british mandate and not a colony as others.Having said so you can see the differences between our countries.Later our ideology also contributed to more differences while Kenyans were Capitalist we were Socialist, this created a big conflict between Tanzanians and Kenyans to the extend that we started calling our name different names i remember Tanzanians calling Kenyans NYANG'AU.Idd Amin when he came to power in Uganda another problem arised thank God Mwalimu Nyerere Fixed him.Today we dont know what President Museveni(Yoweri Kaguta Nyadwi(which means seven in Kirundi kinyarwanda and kiha)but he is known as museveni/english world for seven.I may have confused you but what i want to say is that Museveni who is ANGOLE/Mtutsi Kagame/NYARWANDA/Mtutsi,Nkuda/Mtutsi have there own agenda of the Bahima Empire in Central and East Africa. with all these issues therehidden agendas which some of us don't know.Some Tanzanians know about it that why they are so reluctant on this intergration. It isn't just intergration there is more in it.I know some of you may get confused but from this hint start digging more.(That is why Burundi/Rwanda/Congo these countries have an endless conflict now do you want to spread it to other countries? forgetting not Kenyans with your tribalism)let solve our internal affairs before we embark or just jump to this intergration.
kudadeki wanataka watufanye sie zanzibar yao nn hao wakenya?
ReplyDeleteKAKA MICHUZI,
ReplyDeleteMIMI NI MCHANGIAJI MADA WA MARA KWA MARA NA SIJAWAHI KUOMBA SPECIAL REQUEST TOKA KWAKO HATA SIKU MOJA, ILA THIS TIME NAOMBA NITUMIE NAFASI HII KUKUOMBA TAFADHALI TAFADHALI TAFADHALI! NAOMBA UTAFUTE MBINU ITAKAYO WASILISHA HOJA ZA WATU KWENYE BLOG HII KUHUSU HII ISSUE YA EAC KWA RAISI WETU JAKAYA KIKWETE.
HUU NI MFANO MZURI SANA WA PATRIOTISM UNAO ONYESHWA NA WATANZANIA WANAOIPENDA NCHI YAO.
SIS NDIO WA KUILINDA NCHI YETU NA SIO MTU MWINGINE YEYOTE, HIVYO VIONGOZI WETU WANAPASWA KUWA AWARE NA COMMENTS ZA BLOG HII.
MWISHO TUKAZE UZI WATANZANIA, TUSIRUDI NYUMA, TUSONGE MBELE, TANZANIA IS FOR TANZANIANS, NCHI PEKEE YENYE AMANI AFRICA.
TUNA MAMBO MENGI NDANI YA NCHI YETU AMBAYO BADO TUNAKABILIANA NAYO, SASA IMAGINE TUKIWAACHIA HAO WEZI WAINGIE NCHINI KWETU KWA TAMAA ZAO ZA ARDHI, SI TUTAMALIZANA?
Mdau Canada.
Ni miongoni mwa maamuzi machache sana nimeweza kuyasikia na kufurahia kutoka kwa mmoja wa viongozi wetu.Tunashukuru hili suala nyeti lipo katika mazingira ambayo sio ya kirushwa rushwa inasaidia kwa kiongozi kisimamia maamuzi yaliyo sahihi vinginevyo tungeshasikia tu mkataba ulishasainiwa muda mrefu kama tunavyoshuhudia na kauli kutoka kwa viongozi wengine "hata nyasi ikibidi mtakula lakini ndege ya rais lazima inunuliwe..." na sasa ipo juu ya mawe wala haitumiki ilimradi walishachukua asilimia zao . tunashukuru hili suala halipo katika mazingira ya rushwa.
ReplyDeleteKama mdau hapo juu alivyosema embu fikirieni yaani jamaa moja kwa moja wameanza na kupropose mabadiliko ya sheria ya ardhi... hapa hata mjinga atagundua shida yao hasa nini hawa jamaa katika muungano. Kama wanahitaji sana kuungana basi waungane na nchi nyingine walizopakana kama somalia, ethiopia, sudan mbona huko hawazungumzii kabisa..???? tumeshastuka na ninaomba watanzania wenzangu tulikatae hili suala kwa nguvu zote.
Mtanzania Halisi
Bariadi
Sie waTZ upole wetu unatuponza sana. Tunaona aibu kusema NO! even when that is exactly the right answer.Talking abt well hatuko tayari may B baadae or whatever ni kuendelea ku entertain hiyo topic ambayo inatakiwa iwe imefungwa by now, no more discussion! We know their agenda, they want our land, nimeshtuka mno kukuta kwamba LAND ni ajenda kuu ya huu muungano! we are not selling our land, and for that matter our country and our souls to no Kenyans! (Just the thought of Kenyans owning a piece of land in my country makes me wanna pass out!!!) We need someone to tell them "O Hell no!" and give them a finger while at it (msonyo mkali to follow). Shenzi sana!
ReplyDeleteRehema.
kweli sasa nai-appreciate sana nchi yetu Tanzania. Our leaders have sold our souls so many times and its painful, but this one , You got it Right, for once.
ReplyDeleteBasi miaka michache back nilinunua plot nyumbani (bongo)serikali ilikua inagawa viwanja JKT Mbweni wazazi wangu wakanishauri nijikusanye ninunue kiwanja. Basi nikapiga box kwa bidii nikapata $3400 ya kiwanja. Co worker wangu Mkenya nikamsimulia akashangaa sana kuona you could buy a plot in Tanzania! (and @ such a price) akasema kwao Kenya -Forget it- there is no land left!After 2 days akaja na mapressure juu anataka nimfanyie mpango nae anunue kiwanja Bongo! Thank God i was wise enough kumkatalia, nikamwambia nitafutie kiwanja kwenu Kenya then ntakutafutia Bongo, basi wacha achukie na kuanza kunisema vibaya kwa other co workers eti nina roho mbaya! I realize now that it was the best decision ever!
thanx wadau,
Lucy, New Jersey
Siku ya leo haikuwa nzuri,lakini baada ya kusoma hii, nimefurahi kuona watanzania wengi wana picha moja juu ya huu muungano, tusipelekwe pelekwe kutia saini tu(Si tumeona hao waliotia saini mikataba?) Haraka ya nini? Kwanza tanzania tayari ni muungano wa nchi mbili, bado kuna matatizo ya muungano na zanzibar, sasa tukimbilie EAC? Inatia wasiwasi, maana hii "New World Order" linasikika sikika lakini watu wanapuuzia, ni vitu ambavyo vinaandaliwa, EU hata baada ya wananchi wa nchi mbalimbali kupiga kura ya NO! Baadhi ya viongozi bado wanataka ku-ratify EU treaty, inawezekana ikapitishwa njia ya backdoor, Ukiachana na EU, sisi kwetu Tanzania hatuwachukii wakenya, waganda, warundi au warwanda lakini naomba waheshimu msimamo wetu. Sijui kwa nini wanaongelea suala la ardhi au vitambulisho, hili shirikisho ni la aina gani kweli? Mi nataka kuona ushirikiano na hizi nchi katika mambo mengi, kama ilivyokuwa nia ya shirikisho, masoko, mfumo wa kodi, free movement and cultural exchange, ushirikiano wa mawasiliano, hivi vikisha komaa hata hapatakuwa na haja ya kuongelea EAC maana nadhani yatakuwa yamekamilika yenyewe, kukomaa kwa umoja wa aina hii ndio utakuwa na manufaa kwa wote lakini mpaka kufika hapo itachukuwa muda mrefu(miaka hata 50) Lakini kuna watu wanataka wawepo kwenye vitabu vya historia naona, kwa kutaka kuburazana katika umoja ambao haunufaishi wote. Rwanda na Burundi wanatia huruma maana wao ni kama wadogo zetu(Wadogo wa Tz na Ug)watakubaliana na sisi tutakachoamua, tatizo Uganda yenye raisi ambaye haoneshi dalili ya kuachia madaraka anataka muungano ufanyike haraka, na sisi wenye utanzania (maana imetuchukuwa muda mrefu kufika hapa tulipo) tunaelewa jinsi gani mambo kama ya ukabila na udini tumeweza kuyamudu, hatutaki kuharakishwa na kitu chochote. Suala la kujiunga katika aina hii ya muungano(federation)ni suala la kila mwananchi na sio wabunge au kiongozi mmoja tu, kila mtu itabidi apige kura ya ndio au hapana ili kuupitisha huo umoja wakati utakapofika, lakini kwa sasa hakuna dalili ya mtanzania hata mmoja atakayekubali kuuza haki yake (ardhi!, passport!). The current EAC proposal is simply asking for too much. USIKU MWEMA.
ReplyDeleteKwanza nataka kujua wakenya wote walionunua majumba na viwanja Tanzania walipata vibali hivyo kwa nani na kwa njia gani; bila kuwa na kibali kinachoonyesha kuwa waliruhusiwa na serikali na kwa sababu gani itabidi wavirudishe mara moja. Vile vile nataka kujua kwa nini wakenya wanafanya kazi Tanzania kirahisi bila hata kufuatiliwa na serikali; ninahitaji takwimu zinazoonyesha kuwa kweli ni wao tu walio na ujuzi wa kazi hizo wala hakuna mtanzania yeyote anayeweza kuzifanya.
ReplyDeleteNitatoa mtu masikio nikisikia tena huu upumbavu unaoitwa eti jumuia.
Mie nasema nyie wa bara mkitaka mjiunge na Kenya sisi huku Zanzibar msituhusishe katika mikataba yenu
ReplyDeleteEast African land reforms have been affected by series of acts,decrees and amendments of lousy,obsolete and impractical laws and by-laws that will not synchronize or cope with the modern world of capitalistic or rather imperialistic economic structures.
ReplyDeletetraditionally,we(east africans) had different systems of land tenure within our countries.I think it's time that we school kenyans on what land really mean to us(Tanzanians).
PRE-COLONIAL:
Before the Berlin conference,east africa was mainly composed of small tribal states which depended on subsistence farming.Some of these small tribal states incorporated livestock and/or fishing just to subsidize farming,there was batter trade of negligible importance a good example of such states includes Hehe,nyamwezi,and southern states which I'd like to call them Majimaji states just to name a few.
Normadic-pastoralistic societies were extremely prominent arround Norterh Tanzania(maasai),Nortern kenya,ankole,toro,and the likes.To them land was a natural gift and each state(actually clans,led by a chief/elder)had a particular land tenure system based on their culture.
This type of states had land diputes within and between each other,and they were settled through loss of blood,creating enemity between different tribes.
On the contrary,coastal East African states emerged as a result of medievel Intercontinental trade mainly the Indian Ocean trade between East Africa and Asia.
This created trade posts along east african cost that grew up to become "Mercantile states" under the leadership of asian/Afro-asian traders.the land tenure system was under the conrol of sultans and diwanis and was given to traders and otherrs in exchange for money,goods,services or plainly loyalty.
COLONIAL PERIOD;
Kenya and Uganda became British colonies and the rest was known as German East Africa(later became Tanganyika,Rwanda and Burundi).
KENYA:
Attracted by fertile volcanic region of mount Kenya and abedare region,British settlers acquired land mainly forceful and displaced kenyans.Apart from grazinng land that pastoral societies were allowed to roam arround,the most fertile arable land went to Wealthy white settlers leaving locals with very limited arable land which was then partitioned through inheritance(Only men can inherit land traditionally)
the british paid less attention to land reforms in Kenya,even when they enacted their stupid laws,they really didn't do it to benefit Kenyans.
Hey! they came to colonize you and not develop you,got it?
Of all east african countries,Kenya got it bad,they fought it bravely(shout out to Dedan Kimathi and the mau mau movement)To be betrayed by corrupt,money hungry,immmoral,selfish,ass-kissing fellow kenyans who held some key positions post colonial era.
UGANDA:
This is another sorry ass country that fell prey to british settlers and they didn't fight one notable battle for their land.
Uganda was really big in feudalism.That was the "modus operandi" of the day to day agricultural production.buganda,bunyoro,toro,ankole societies all of them share a common feudal system of lan ownership and the British tried to work with baganda and other chiefs on land appropriations bills and laws that still favoured the whites and ass-kissing chiefs who were traditionally,the landlords.
RWANDA:
Another sorry ass country full of tribalism and extremely populated.We don't even need to talk about Rwanda and Burundi cos they are not on our level!They are 100% feudalists who don't even have enough land.I have to give props to RPF and Rwandan government for at least try to distribute their land to every Rwandan to the point of even splitting a couple of National parks WOW! of course you guys will support EAC land and travel deal cos you really need it!SORRY.
TANZANIA:
The most stable and socially and politically developed of them all!
With the exceptions of the Nyarubanja system that was popular in Mutesa's era in kagera,Tanzania didn't really have land trouble due to its large area.
Even when the british tried to mess with our fertile regions,people fought hard and most of the times had their land back because we were just a protectorate and we're kinda good(naturally)whe it comes to politics.A good example is the Mount meru land conflict which went to the UN with Japhet Kirilo and the Tanzania merus emerged as victors.Thanks to KANU for helping us too!
POST COLONIAL:
I'm getting kinda tired so I will be brief.
Tanzania is the only country in east africa that Nationalized all mojor means of production in 1967(Arusha declaration) followed by villagization in 1973 which gave land ownership to its citizens through establishment of ujamaa villages.
idd Amin in 1975 made a decree that abolished land ownership by tribal leaders esp in baganda and bunyoro states to be reversed by following governments(Museveni)who formed a powerless Land commission and amazingly powerful district Land boards and some funny tribunal circuits that gave back land to the once abolished kingdom of baganda and others.
Kenyans have been really conservative in their land reforms which just gave back land to politically strong few.
CONCLUSIVE REMARKS:
We dont have the same history and our land and internal security laws differ in either enacting or iplementing them.We hava a lot of arable land available.
We suffered a lot after we nationalized our land just the way Zimbabwe is.They did not want to even support our move when we announced the Arusha declaration,they were not in the frontline states during our crusade for the liberation of southern rhodesia,Angola,Mozambique and Namibia.Kenya even traded with apartheid regime of South Africa.SO,unless major land reforms are made they can shove those proposals up their harambee asses!
shemeji Kamau
ReplyDeleteYou are right........please lets all petition this so it gets the right attention to JK
however i think the government is moving towards the right direction
so all you pent up Kenyans who will give us a call in 2100AD better get ready for our own call before 2011 coalition with sudan ! and ethiopia ??!!!
We are much better off than you guys, and we dont need a Cain and ABel you are not our brother's keeper !! infact please !!! we should be your keepers after all those chaos in Kenya, who is wallowing in misery and self pity ? we Tanzanians are proudly Tanzanians wherever we are abroad or at home the heart is always and will always be at Tanzania and our unity cant be compared with the price we'll pay for having you around, we are blessed with rich resources even if we are yet to realise its full profit but it sits in our motherland, its ours !! we are peaceful and dont want to bask in someone else's victory we celebrate our own small milestone, Tanzanian bila Kenyans?? YES WE CAN !! YES WE CAN SHEMEJI !!
Huyu kamau NYANG'AU sana, hana lolote historia haijui mtu wa ku-copy na ku-paste tu mada zake.
ReplyDeleteNahisi huyu jamaa ni yule jamaa mkenya mfupi kama nyundo pale EATV Josiah Murunga. I can tell the way anavyoongea na ku-present utumbo wake.
Nimebanwa na kazi hapa nilipo ofisini, natafuta muda nimjibu
Asante sana mdau kwa kunijibia.
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Kamau,(Dec 4: 1.07)
umeongea sana. Pole sana kwa maumivu yako.
Lakini suala la history kwetu huwezi kutufundisha hata kidogo. Ulichoongea wewe ni kuhalalisha ushamba wenu wa Kenya kukumbatia Ukabila. Kwa akili yako wewe unataka sema slavery ya West Africa(trans Atlantic) iliharibu makabila au kuangamiza umoja wao kule? Kwa mtizamo wako West African hawana umoja wa utaifa? in 15-17 century nusu ya Liberia ilipelekwa Carribean, na ndiko kwenye ukabila kuliko wenu huo!
Pia, hiyo Mau Mau yenu si ingekuwa imetekeza kila kitu huko kwenu? umesahau kuwa watu wengi sana walitoka Mombasa na Malindi kwenda Uarabuni kwa slavery. Uko very shallow kwa kila kitu kama walivyo Kenyans wengine. Unatambia Kiingereza, ili wenzako China, Germany, Japan, Arabic countries, wanatambia lugha zao! Yaani wewe uko kwenye enzi ya ukoloni mentally! Pole sana na siwezi kukusaidia.
Pili, sisi tuko happy sana hiyo Nyerere vision. That makes Tanzanians. Hatuna haraka na hatuwahi kuwa nayo. Tunajua tutafika tuendako bila wasi wasi. Unaiponda Nyerere Ujamaalisation hujui kuwa ndiyo inanifanya nimwone mwenzangu ndugu. Tofauti na wewe Kamau unavyomwona Onyanga kinyago, ati kwa kuwa hajatahiriwa! Kichaa hicho.
Wewe achana na sisi. Unavyoongea hapa unaoneka uko desparate kwa Tanzania kutaka irudishe mawazo yake.
Halafu, nyie mmekomaa hii federation ili mje kufanya nini huku? Hatuwahitaji kabisa. Tuna njia nyingi sana za kuendeleza economy yetu kuliko integration. We had this federation before.
Najisikia vizuri sana kuwa Mtanzania kuliko ningezawaliwa Kenya na kuwa Kenyan.
Tarehe December 04, 2008 3:54 PM, Mtoa Maoni: Anonymous
............Meekness against oppression, low self-esteem, enslavement of kids in the mines, psychotic attachment to the slavers' language/religion and overdependence on the government/masters instead of developing personal intitiatives.....
This typically Kenyan! The reason why you fight during elections. We never. Each individual is independent and does not need specific person/tribe to lead. Anyone can do.
Look at how violent you are, look at kids on the streets, look at Kibera slum (2nd to none in Africa), look at prostitute in Mombasa and Nairobi (is this independence of minds), look at Chokoraa in the streets (you can't compare to kids in the mines) look at yourself, it is possible you don't have a plot for put you house.....
You summarised of what kenyans are. And who would like to be with you now?
Mind you. The rest of the Countries (Uganda, Burundi, Rwanda) are infact in need of Tanzania than you think. This is a non starter federation until when we say we are ready. Wait and see.
Tarehe December 04, 2008 4:06 PM, Mtoa Maoni: Anonymous
Swahiliannnnnn!!!!!
nilkwambia aliyeanza kuikashifu tanzania kwamba tunachelewesha muungano hawajawahi kifiri maana hana ubongo, ni bora kuwa na ngombe maana utapata maziwa, nyama, mbolea ya samadi, ngozi n.k, kuliko kuwa na mtu ambaye hafikiriiii. Wananikera sanaaaaa!
Tarehe December 04, 2008 4:41 PM, Mtoa Maoni: Anonymous
Wenzangu hapo juu wamechangia mengi sana tena ya maana na ya kweli. Bwana ee, kwani lazima turudiane? kama watanzania tunasita, there is good reason. Kenyans proud themselves in being 'fast' lakini pia wako very cold. Sorry I know them well enough not to share a house with them, let alone a country. Kila nchi ina uhuru wa kuamua mambo yake! Kenyans can as well 'chapa mwendo' na Banyarwanda, Baganda, Barundi, watuache sisi na uboze wetu. Si lazima - Agh!
Tarehe December 04, 2008 5:16 PM, Mtoa Maoni: Anonymous
Why are Kenyans forcing intergration ... What do they want in Tanzania ....
Tarehe December 04, 2008 5:17 PM, Mtoa Maoni: Anonymous
Hei Shemeji
We can just do business, have some kind of permits but we do not need to sign land occupationcontracts. I think that is what our Leaders are working on. There is no country in the world which gives the land instead they fight a war for it.
Nimefurahishwa sana na mdahalo huu. Kweli yaliyosemwa naweza kusema yanawakilisha asilimia 100% ya mawazo ya watanzania. Hakuna mtu ana shida na hii EAC tena wametibua sana walipoleta hadithi ya land reforms and identity cards. kama wao wanang'ang'nia kuwa watatuacha na hiyo EAC yao ya kutaka kupora ardhi yetu let them go. We realy do not need that mess. We are in SADC also so no problem whatever they say. Its better we join with other SADC countries like Mozambique, Zambia, Malawi and others who are not land mongers like Kenya and Uganda. Afterall EAC could move well kama ajenda zingebakia za soko la pamoja. But with this hidden angendas we Tanzanians we will fight for our LAND forever. May God bless Tanzania!!!!!
ReplyDeletelets assume(God forbid) somehow tzania after being pressed so hard by the bully kenya unfortnately tukasaini mkataba! (we have done things before we know we shouldn't have done!)
ReplyDeletethe next thing we know katiba ya muungano huo,ukurasa wa kwanza, kifungu cha kwanza mstari wa kwanza itasema, "any citizen of the four member countries is free to own a peace of land in any of the four member countries!!!" SCARY! !&*^%$#@*&^%$#@!!! (thats me screming at the thought)
i've never been kusisimka like ths before!!!!!WHATTTTTT LAND AND TO SELL OUR CITIZENSHIP???in Jesus name nooo way,,,
ReplyDeletekwa 100%+++ hairuhusiwi hata kidogo
let them go "faster" with their federation we Tz gonna move slowly like snail,,by the way we'll reach the end,,,kwani snail uwa hafiki aendako????so what!!!!
their so greedy,,wth their stupid n arrogant words (Ugs and Knys.)
Yan sijawai ona hii,,,yes twataka maendeleo bt not from ths external "evil powers"
weeeeeeeeee yan kiongozi mTz atayedhubutu kulazimisha na kutuingiza nchi ktk hili lazima AFE Mungu anaona..mana kuna wajinga wachache "wanaonunulika" na vibaraka wa wazungu wakatuingiza humo.
ati kiinglishi cha wakenya na uganda???what the CRAP!!!mawazo mgando kbs ya kitumwa haya,,,ulimwengu mzima walioendelea is it through kuongea iyo lugha???yu narrow-minded ngiri sijui aloandika tht comments kuwakilisha wa-Kny Kamau??Hata tukila "nyasi" nyie mwatutakia nini?????the end tutakula uvumilivu na mwendo wetu taratibuuuu lainiiii.
YAN NAHASIRA YA KUKAA KTK DEBATE NA AWA MANYANG'AU MBONA NIMEMISS ZILE DEBATE ZA SECONDARY???WATUKALISHE CHINI TULONGE AKILI WAO WAONGEE THT "PROUDLY"KIINGLISH YAN ME NAPIGA KISWAHILI TENA CHA MTAA NA MKALIMANI AKIWA PEMBENI...nyamafu
yan badala kuanza uchumi,infrastructure,IT etc yan waanza LAND na URAIA???na nyie viongozi mlotuwakilisha uko ivi hamku-share izo agendas mungeitoa kabisa tht crap mapema,tuongee mengine sio ayo maswala ebo.Uingereza imeuza land yake,au ufaransa,belgium,italy,chek,romania,turkey etc????yan waungane tuu izo haraka zao sie tuchanganue taratibu,ata tukiingia federation bt there r some sensitive issues forbiden to surrender---LAND AND CITIZENSHIP,FAITH.
ya kwetu apa OIC na mahakama ya kadhi tu joto lafukuta,aya tukiingiza na ardhi na uraia??shindwaaaaaaa
crap crap crap
aluta continue annons na wa-Tz woote wapendao nchi
GOD BLESS MY TANZANIA
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmh!!!!
ReplyDeletehii atiko mboni kama ishapita kitambooo??yan ya siku nyingi wakati ule walipokua wakusanya maelezo ya watu km tuingie EA
jaman sio tayari tushaingizwa ktk hili dude la ardhi na uraia???
MICHU FORWARD THS Mr president na wizara ya EA-Tanzania waone all thz +ve comments zanye akili za kufa mtu
SITAAMINI
Hawa wenzetu hawajui kabisa kuwa issue ya Land inahusu usalama na ustawi wa Taifa. HAWAFUNDISHIKI PIA, KWA KUWA WANA AGENDA ILIYOFICHIKA.
ReplyDeleteAngalia jinsi Rwanda(watawala wa--si) na Uganda(watawala wanyakole-ndugu wa watu--) wanavyotaka kuimega Kongo. Tukiungana watamega ngara, na kuunda mambo yao kwani wamezoea hivyo.
Kenya nao, 'watu wa magharibi'wanatamani kuingia Tanzania kupitia huko.
Lecturer mmoja,nikiwa Kenya, akasema kuwa yeye anataka 'East Africa tuungane' ili aje apate ARDHI ya kutumia huku Tanzania.HAYO NDIO MAWAZO YAO (NILIMSIKIA KWA MASIKIO YANGU)--KUTUMALIZA.
Serikali iendelee na msimamo huo huo bila kugeuka. Hawa jamaa waking'ang'ania TUACHANE NAO, TUONE JINSI WATAKAVYOGOMBONA.
Rwanda hakuna ardhi, Burundi vile vile, Kenya (angalia ile squarter kubwa kabisa pale NAIROBI ndio utajua), Uganda nao wana matatizo yao na kina KABAKA nk. Nakumbuka mtu mmoja aliwawekea ngumu Jeshi walipotaka kuchukua 'Mlima wake' kwasababu za kiusalama.
Tanzania Tuanzishe 'NATIONAL PARTY FOR THE PROTECTION OF TANZANIA LAND AND WELFARE' (NPPTLW).
Serikali acha kulegeza Kamba.KEEP IT UP NA TUKO BEHIND YOU.
Safi sana Dr.Kamala na Mr Aboud. Tutafuate nyao zenu msiwe na shaka.
Kumbuka wakati nyerere anasaidia kusuruhisha mgogoro wa Burundi, alisema tatizo la hawa watu ni ARDHI.
Thank you the Government of Tanzania kwa kuliona bao la wazi ambalo wenzetu wakiongozwa na Kenya wanataka kulifuga kwa kisigino!!
ReplyDeleteSerikali yetu ikithubutu kukubaliana nao juu ya ardhi hii itakuwa sawa na kuuza nchi kinyemela tena bila mafao yoyote kwa wanannchi.Mtu mwenye akili yake anajiuliza, je mbona hawa wakenya wanakimbilia kupata ardi yetu kwa bwerere ya Umoja wa Afrika Mashariki?
Matatizo yao BADo hatujayasahau ambapo walichinjana kama kuku mnamo mwanzo wa mwaka huko kwao.Je ni hilo sisi tunalitaka?
Kama nuo ndio msukumo kuwa watatue matatizo yao ya ardhi kwa mgongo wa Afrika Mashariki wakafilie mbali na huo muungano wa kijinga ufe.
Mimi mdau wako bro Michuzi na niko India
Kenyans amaze me-who the hell does kamau think he is to advise us in the first place? I have lived with Kenyans and what I can surely state is that they are hypocritical people.
ReplyDelete2. Kanyans can never stand up in times of shiot and they just really know how to boot lick and scheme. Unfortunately this is not what we want in Tanzania. sisi siyo wabinafsi!!we are happy as we are and
3. After second thoughts I support the EAC dep min that we don't actually need the East African passports-Itatuingiza kweye matatizo zaidi. Kenyans are so materialistic, land possessed and the next thing if given the opportunity is they will be selling out land to Mzungu's who will just come back and colonise us proper.
4. Wakenya will also head for the areas with gold and other minerals and they will export them in the name of kenya!Kenyans are crooks-watanzania nisikilizeni mimi mdau nawafahamu hawa watu they can sell to you a dead cat in a well wrapped gift box. NO to EAC if this is what it means.
5. wewe kamau pilipili usiyoila inakuwasha nini rais wetu anasoma vile vile habari anaipata na dawa ipo jikoni.
6. Watanzania tushikamane tusikubali hili la kuwa na passport ya East African community-tuangalie na huko mbele kwa siye tunaoomba kuwepo na dual nationality hii nafasi ikijitokeza wakenya watatumaliza.
The Number 1 Foreign Direct Invester in TZ is KENYA! for many years i should add. Think about it.
ReplyDeleteWhat is shocking is that the comments come from people who should Know.
Shame on you!give leadership not hate messages.
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